DELPHI — The high-profile murder trial captivated the attention of people in Indiana and across the country. It ended in November when a jury convicted Richard Allen for the murders of Delphi teens Abby Williams and Libby German. Allen was sentenced to 130 years in prison, but his defense team contends the wrong man was convicted.
For the first time since a gag order was imposed over two years ago, members of Allen's defense team shared their thoughts on the trial with WRTV's Kaitlyn Kendall. They expressed frustration over the trial's proceedings and their belief that the girls' killer — or killers — remains free.
"If Richard Allen is not guilty, no justice was served," said defense attorney Jennifer Auger. "There was no justice for Abby and Libby. There's no justice for Richard Allen. And there's no justice for the people of Indiana."
Auger and fellow attorney Andrew Baldwin believe crucial third-party evidence, which they argue could exonerate Allen, was excluded from the trial. Judge Fran Gull ruled there was no link between the suspects the defense wanted to bring to the jury's attention.
"This jury wanted to convict someone," Auger argued. "They feel that that's their job. And with no one else to point the finger to, I believe that had our third-party evidence come out, this would have ended differently."
Despite twelve jurors finding Allen guilty and the evidence presented, the defense maintains the guilty verdict does not reflect the totality of the circumstances — including issues of reasonable doubt and the absence of in-court identifications.
"I think when the jury came back and looked at the evidence, I was a little worried that they were so intently listening to the video from Libby's phone, that it was coming down to that," Auger said. "That was worrisome to me when we felt that we had so much reasonable doubt, the timeline, the data from the phone, the lack of evidence, the lack of any in-court identifications."
Baldwin admitted he, too, was surprised by the verdict.
"It’s numbing. Gutting," Baldwin said. "You actually ask yourself, 'Did they just say guilty?' You intellectually know that that's what they said, but in your mind, is that what they said? it's easy to make it about you as the lawyer. How is this going to affect my career? How's this going to impact me as a human being? Unfortunately, that's the human part of us. But then you look, and there's Richard Allen, and there's Kathy (Richard Allen's wife) out there."
Baldwin continued, "That is when it becomes really hard. It becomes super hard at that point because it's like, why am I even caring about me? This guy is going to have to go back to prison. He's ill-equipped to be in prison with his mental health issues, and his wife. It's just really awful."
Both attorneys expressed their deep commitment to Allen's case and said they would continue the fight if a retrial is necessary.
"We are all very committed to Richard Allen. We care about him deeply, his family, and the case and justice," Auger said.
While Baldwin acknowledges that emotional attachment might compromise their representation, he affirmed their desire to be an advocate for Allen.
"We actually believe in his innocence," Baldwin said. "If it isn't us (to defend him in court,) I will suck up my pride and let somebody else take on that role."
"I mean, there's things that might take away from our representation to have the best and adequate representation. I don't really believe that as I sit here and say it, but I'm willing to consider that for sure because it's whatever is best for him. I'm not just saying that to say it," Baldwin said. "It's the politically correct thing to say. I mean, those who say those are defense lawyers doing defense lawyer things — they don't really believe in his innocence. That's just what they do. That is not who we are. We actually believe in his innocence. We actually would want to be in the fight in the future."
It's one of the reasons the attorneys said they chose not to share things they would change if they could try the case again.
"You look back and think, I wish I would have done that. Maybe this would have helped," Auger said. "The last thing we want to do is talk about our strategy for next time."
Baldwin admitted there is one thing he would reconsider. In hindsight, they might have advocated for having Kathy Allen (Richard Allen's wife) testify. He believes it could have made a difference in the outcome. He stressed they held a post-trial discussion of what they might have done differently. Baldwin says he believes Kathy Allen would have been able to withstand cross-examination from the state.
Baldwin described the demanding process of sorting through an overwhelming amount of evidence.
"We probably went through a printer machine that was probably ruined...it was so much paperwork," Baldwin said.
He emphasized the painstaking effort involved in reviewing and organizing the materials to build a robust defense.
"We got a lot of stuff... every morning, I would look through the documents, scanning for anything interesting," he added, reflecting on the detailed discovery.
Baldwin took issue with some of that discovery and expressed frustration with how and when the defense received it. He highlighted the prolonged wait for a key piece of evidence from Libby German's phone which he says they received nine months after they began representing Allen.
"I've never heard an explanation from the prosecution why we didn't get Libby's phone dump until September 8, 2023," Baldwin noted. He added it had a significant impact on their defense strategy.
Baldwin said the team used a comprehensive approach to connecting various pieces of evidence that seemed disparate.
"You start connecting dots," he explained. "You're talking about hundreds, maybe thousands of hours of doing that."
Amid the chaos of legal strategy and sifting through evidence, Auger pointed to the human aspect of the case.
"This could be anyone's father, brother, child, friend," she said, noting Allen's repeated proclamations of innocence both during the investigation and in solitary confinement. "It's just wrong what happened. He took a walk in the woods, and that led to this tragedy."
The defense team's relationship with Allen was characterized by a deep emotional connection and a strong sense of commitment. They emphasized their care for their client, reflecting a genuine bond that developed throughout the trial.
"Richard is a funny guy. He's a regular guy. I've told this before, and I'll tell you. Some of the best times during the trial that we had was during lunch because they had these great guards from Carroll County that really let us have lunch with him and bring him — Richard likes two things, tacos and coffee," Baldwin said.
The attorneys say they view Allen as a man who deserves empathy and support, particularly given his mental health struggles and the nature of the charges he faced.
When asked about the work of the jury, the defense lawyers say they would appreciate an opportunity to speak with them. Auger would welcome pointers from the jury's point of view.
"I'd like to know what they thought about individual aspects of the evidence," Auger said. "We're going to go try more cases. And we're very thoughtful about our courtroom demeanor, our courtroom presence. You know, practicing law is an art as much as more than it is a science. So, you know, were there things that we did during the trial that you didn't like? Just from a practitioner."
The defense team emphasized how it respects the jurors' sacrifice and commitment.
"These people gave up a month of their lives, and in many ways, it was harder for them than it was for us," Auger said. "We're not mad at anyone at all, but we love to talk to people and just, you know, understand them, because it's different for every jury, what was important."
Baldwin said he wanted to present evidence to the jury, but some was not permitted by Judge Gull.
"What I would like to do is bring the evidence that wasn't allowed in and say, here, I'm going to show you a few things," Baldwin said. "Would this have made a difference to you? And here's a photograph. Here's an image. Here's the relationship between these people. All this stuff that's talked about in the 136-page Frank's memo, and then things that happened even after that, would that have made a difference?"
But Baldwin expressed he would never put the jury in that position.
"I wouldn't want them to think that we're blaming them. I wouldn't want to be, you know, doing that kind of thing with the jury. So it's tough. I mean part of me would say, 'I don't really want to talk to them.' Part of me does say that because it's like I don't even want to know because I'm going to get angry about it."
Throughout the trial, Baldwin was confident Richard Allen would be found not guilty.
"At the end of the day, you say, 'Who won the day?' You know, and when the state was going every day, we felt like we won the day. And there were a couple days where we tied, we felt, and maybe we lost one day. t's crazy that we were surprised that we had a guilty verdict, but we were, at least I was surprised," Baldwin said.
When it came to waiting for a verdict, both attorneys agreed, that was very difficult.
"Conventional wisdom, if you will, says the longer the jury's out, the better it is for Mr. Allen. And, you know, I think we wanted to feel that way," Auger said.
Watch the full interview with Baldwin and Auger below
