DELPHI — On day ten of the Delphi Murders Trial, video evidence of Richard Allen's interview with police was seen in court for the first time.
PREVIOUSLY: Delphi Murders Trial: Day 9 | DNA and Blood Spatter experts take the stand: Allen's DNA not found at scene
It was also the first time the court heard the voice of Allen, the man who faces multiple counts of murder in the February 2017 deaths of Abby Williams and Libby German.
On October 13, 2022, Allen met with the Indiana State Police at the ISP Post in Lafayette. He was interviewed by former Delphi Police Chief Steve Mullin and Carroll County Sheriff Tony Liggett.
"We just want to figure out what you saw when you were out there," said Liggett to Allen. "You told Dan Dulin with DNR in February 2017 that you parked at the old welfare office between 1:30 to 3:30 p.m."
Dulin took Allen's first statement in 2017. They discussed how Allen was on the trail on February 13, 2017, the day the girls went missing.
Portions of the interview with Mullin also showed Allen joking and laughing with investigators about being in the "50 club" (Allen recently turned 50 years old.) He discussed family history and his health history. He said he had a heart attack and a few stints, as well as suffered from depression, anxiety, high blood pressure and high cholesterol.
Allen said he had worked at CVS in Delphi since 2013. Before that, he had been a store manager at Wal-Mart.
Allen's timeline
On February 13, 2017, Allen told police he had visited his mother near Peru, Indiana. He believed he left around 11:00 a.m. to 11:15 a.m. and went home.
He said it was warmer than usual, so he grabbed a jacket and went to the Monon High Bridge trails.
Allen says he walked down to the bridge around noon, and said he walked out a little way on to the bridge to see if he could see any fish in the water below the bridge.
"I like fishing," he told police.
Allen said he sat down for a few minutes and then left. He tried to remember where he had parked that day, but he could not say for certain.
Regarding his first interview with authorities in 2017, Allen said he went to the Carroll County Sheriff's Office to provide the tip of seeing three girls on the trail. When an officer called to discuss the tip, Allen said he was headed to the grocery store. Allen paused and apologized saying, "Forgive me. It's been years. I've thought about it a lot."
He said he left the trails around 1:30 p.m. to 1:45 p.m. on February 13, 2017, but added that he "forgot the timing really."
Allen again told police he remembered seeing three girls at the trailhead and remembered seeing two vehicles at the "farmer's entrance." He couldn't remember what the exact cars were, but he said it could've been an SUV or sedan.
As the interview of Allen's interaction with police played in the courtroom, Allen nodded in agreement.
On the videotape of the interview, Liggett asked Allen how he got to the bridge after he parked.
Allen said he walked along the road. Allen said he remembered seeing cars parked at the Mears entrance, but he said he was focused on trading stocks during his walk.
"I like to trade stocks, just trying to get rich," said Allen.
Investigators asked what he was wearing
Allen couldn't recall exactly what he was wearing that day but said he was wearing blue jeans, and likely a Carhartt jacket, tennis shoes, or military-style combat boots. He said in 2017 his jacket probably would have been black. "I have sweatshirts, hoodies. I have a little bit of everything," he said.
Investigators then asked Richard Allen if they could examine his phone.
Allen asked, "How long would you have my phone?"
Mullin read Allen the phone rights to which Allen responded,
"I'm not going to be somebody's fall guy. I was trying to be helpful."
"It honestly amazes me we're even talking. I don't want to be somebody's fall guy. This doesn't feel like a conversation it seems like you think I've done this."
Liggett told Allen they were just "crossing T's and dotting I's."
The video played in court shows Allen preparing to give his phone to the police, but he pulls back and says he needs to talk to his wife first.
"I don't want to be associated with this thing any more than everyone else does," said Allen.
Allen said he didn't want police looking at the websites he had visited. The former Delphi police chief began pressing Allen by saying the phone would help.
"We're here because you haven't found the guy who did this," said Allen. "I don't want to become that guy," said Allen. "I had nothing to do with it."
October 26, 2022: An interview prior to Allen's arrest
Indiana State Police investigator Jerry Holeman interviewed Allen on October 26, 2022. Portions of that interview were played for the jury.
In the video, Holeman started to build rapport with Allen. They discussed guns and Allen's military background. Holeman asked if Allen had guns or knives when he walked the Monon High Bridge in February. Allen denied that he did.
Holeman then told Allen the ISP crime lab had results suggesting otherwise. Allen laughed and said, "No they don't."
In the video, Holeman showed Allen pictures of the Winchester .40 Smith & Wesson cartridge found at the crime scene. He said, "You can look at the data here."
Allen said he didn't need to read it. "This is ridiculous," he said.
The video shows Allen denying any wrongdoing — dozens of times.
"I don't even know how that got out there. There is no way. I am telling you that's not true. It's not my round," he was heard to say.
Holeman told Allen the death penalty could be on the line.
"I don't really care about living at this point. Kill me. I don't give a f***," said Allen. "Go ahead. Kill me. You'll make my wife rich. I've been dealing with wanting to die for years."
Holeman told Allen he had been the last person to contact Abby and Libby.
Allen again denied knowing them or ever interacting with them.
The inside of Allen's mouth was swabbed for DNA by ISP investigators, without any pushback from Allen.
Holeman continued to press Allen for a confession telling Allen "the ball was in his court."
Allen responded, "You just took my DNA" and then seemed to laugh in disbelief.
ISP told Allen experts point to him as being the man referred to as "Bridge Guy" from the video captured on Libby German's iPhone.
"They didn't see me near the girls or anyone else because it didn't happen," said Allen. "I don't care how stressed out I get. I'm not going to say I did something to something I didn't f***ing do," Allen said.
When asked about coming forward with information, Allen said he gave his statement to police the same day they asked for tips from the public in 2017.
"There is no way possible a round from my gun ended up at a murder scene, so something is wrong," said Allen. "I'm not going to sit here all day and try to convince you I didn't do something. You guys are trying to trick me into saying something," Allen stressed.
Holeman left the interview room and came back with a photo of a bullet that had been found at Allen's home in a keep-safe box. It had been found when police executed a search warrant.
In the video, Holeman could be seen and heard giving Allen his theory. He told Allen, "I believe the girls said something to you. You told them down the hill, then racked your gun to scare them."
"This is ridiculous. I'm not going to keep repeating myself," said Allen.
Allen also denied knowing the property owner Ron Logan. Logan owns the property where the bodies of the girls were found near Deer Creek.
"You and I know that evidence doesn't lie," said Holeman.
"Clearly it does," responded Allen.
During the recorded police interview, ISP told Allen his wife Kathy believed the evidence.
Allen responded, "Oh my God. I didn't do anything. I didn't murder two girls. I didn't help anyone kill two girls. I didn't scheme. Whatever you said, I was in no way involved in murdering two little girls."
His wife, Kathy, entered the interview room where they hugged and kissed. Kathy was crying. Allen tried to reassure her he was innocent. At one point, she asked him how the bullet from his gun got out there. Allen said he didn't know.
As the video of their interaction played in court, Allen looked back at his wife and winked at her.
"You know me," he could be heard saying.
Allen continued to tell Kathy he didn't do it and not to worry about him.
Holeman's demeanor changed. He became heated and started to cuss at Allen.
Allen became more reserved. He asked if his wife could leave, then kissed her.
Holeman told Kathy to tell her husband to do the right thing. That's when Allen got upset.
"You're going to pay for what you've done in my life. If you want to f*** with me, you can f*** with me, but leave my wife out of this," said Allen.
Holeman screamed at Allen, "You killed those f***ing girls. I know you did."
Allen said he was done talking and told Holeman to arrest him. He pushed his arms forward for Holeman to arrest him.
"Happy to. You're f***ing guilty, and I'm going to prove it," said Holeman.
The prosecution and defense agreed to allow the judge to read the transcription of the rest of the video that was not played in court. That portion contained Richard Allen being arrested for the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German.
Confessions from Richard Allen
After a lunch break, the state called former Westville Correctional Facility Warden John Galipeau to the stand to testify.
Allen was transported to Westville Correctional Facility in the Westville Correctional Unit (WCU) under a safekeeping order issued in October 2022.
The state's website describes WCU as a portion of the prison that holds 110 maximum security inmates assigned to long-term restricted housing plus 110 inmates in disciplinary segregation.
Defense attorney Brad Rozzi explained it as "a prison within the prison."
Galipeau discussed Allen's cell, a padded isolated cell in the WCU. The WCU houses maximum security inmates and those being held away from the general population.
He said there were cameras inside Allen's cell that were always pointed at him.
Allen was given a suicide companion, who was assigned to watch Allen's cell and check on him. Galipeau said Allen's demeanor changed while he was housed at WCU.
The suicide companions would keep a log of any behaviors or words Allen spoke. Galipeau testified inmates used to be companions, but now detention deputies are responsible.
During Allen's stay at WCU, Galipeau said he received a note from Allen stating he wanted to confess to the murders of Abby and Libby and to tell their families he was sorry.
"I am ready to officially confess for killing Abby and Libby. I hope I get the opportunity to tell the families I'm sorry," the note wrote.
A total of eight detention deputies also testified to dozens of accounts where Allen allegedly confessed to the murders.
Those confessions included the accounts where Allen said he killed Williams and German and that he wanted to apologize to the girls' families.
None of these confessions were videotaped or recorded. All of them were written accounts of what Allen said to deputies assigned to monitor Allen's behavior and log what he told them.
The cross-examination by the defense focused on Allen’s mental capabilities during his time in prison. Many witnesses testified to self-destructive behavior including banging his head on the wall, defecating in his hand, covering his body and face with his feces, and smearing it on his cell walls. They said he paced back in forth in his room and even drank his toilet bowl water.
Defense attorney Brad Rozzi suggested multiple times Allen was eating his own feces.
Ethan Drang has been with the Department of Corrections facility for two and a half years. He testified he was assigned to sit in front of Allen's door and write suicide companion reports.
He said Allen confessed and slipped an envelope under the door asking to speak to the warden. He said the note inside the envelope was him writing to the warden that he wanted to confess and tell the victim's families he was sorry.
Drang also testified Allen said, "I think coming to prison cleared my depression and anxiety."
Officer Michael Clemmons was another suicide companion of Allen. He was tasked with documenting Allen's interactions every 15 minutes.
He documented confessions from Allen such as, "I Richard Matthew Allen killed Abby and Libby all by myself. Nobody helped me."
Clemmons also wrote down a number of things Allen said in April 2022.
- "God I am so glad nobody gave up on me after I killed Abby and Libby."
- "I am ready to confess."
- "I don't want to die."
- "I am not crazy. I am only acting like I am crazy."
During cross-examination, one of Allen's defense attorneys asked Clemmons if Allen said how they were killed.
Clemmons said, "He didn't say anything specific."
Next to the stand was Michael Roberts. He too was a detention deputy assigned as a suicide companion for Allen while at the Westville correctional facility.
Roberts read aloud to the jury some of the things he heard Allen say while looking over him.
- "Dear lord forgive me for molesting Abby, Libby and Chris."
- "Dear lord forgive me for molesting Abby, Libby, Chris and Kevin."
- "I want to confess. I know a lot more."
- "What more do I got to do."
- "I killed Abby and Libby. My wife wasn't involved. I would like to confess."
- "Can I talk? Can you listen? I killed Abby and Libby."
- "How do I prove I'm sane?"
- "Why are you doing this? Do you know God? Why now? I killed Abby and Libby."
- "I'll take some KFC. My grandpa molested me."
- "Do I make you mad? Have I told you about my wife? I killed Abby and Libby."
- "God, I am sorry for wasting your time."
- "I swear I never cheated on a cigarette."
- "I thought I was eating pizza."
Roberts testified that Allen was hitting his head on the wall for a long period of time while in his cell. He even testified that Allen's face was swollen from this and bruised in some places.
When testifying, Roberts shared that the other inmates who previously served as companions were spreading his words, "like wildfire."
He believed Allen "accepted his fate."
Roberts shared that Allen was seen running in place in his cell for several seconds at a time, and was even rolling on the ground.
Detention deputy James Early was next on the stand. He served as a suicide companion and testified to a number of things he wrote on his log sheet recounting Allen's words and behaviors.
- Allen pacing back and forth, "I am ready to confess."
- "I swear to God, I killed Abby and Libby. F**k me running."
- "I am ready to take the test. F**k. Ready to confess."
- Allen drank his toilet water and hot sauce. He appeared to urinate on his mat.
- Allen talking at the door about himself and Kathy. He can be heard mumbling about being a sex addict.
- Allen is awake mimicking Officer Early's movements. He is asking random questions. "Can I confess to the warden and Dr. Wala?"
- "I'm already dead."
Early testified that Allen appeared to be quiet and non-confrontational when he first got to Westville. He described him as looking like "a deer in the headlights."
However, Early shared that his behavior got bizarre. Allen, he says, began drinking out of the toilet.
He also testified to Allen harming himself with a spork, and covered himself in feces.
Early said he was not warned of any mental health issues with Richard Allen and thought he was "perfectly normal."
The defense team pressed Early asking about how he determines if someone is crazy.
He said, "It's really a case-by-case basis."
When asked if he "Would agree that those conditions [at Westville] could be detrimental to someone's mental health?" He replied, "Yes."
Early went on to say, "I think anyone under that prolonged environment, it could make them have some issues."
Detention deputy John Miller testified as to what he remembered Richard Allen saying while being a suicide companion.
Miller read his suicide companion log with the following submission he wrote Allen told him:
- "I killed Abby and Libby."
- "The funniest joke is how I killed them."
- "I got what I deserved for what I did. I hope I burn in h**l for what I did."
- "I'm sorry for what I did. For killing them." Miller said Allen was crying when he said that.
- "I'm sorry for killing those kids."
- "I only killed them to give my family more time to live."
Miller also testified that Allen appeared to be "respectful and normal" when he first got to Westville.
He said around March, Allen began refusing meals. Miller said he was pacing his cell and mumbling a lot.
Miller testified that he believed Allen was orchestrating his behavior and planning it out.
Next to the stand was Brandon Fisher. He also was a detention deputy at the Westville Correctional Facility who acted as a suicide companion.
Fisher shared a number of observations and quotes he says Allen said while inside the Westville correctional facility.
Fisher said Allen requested to speak to the warden to confess that he is guilty, twice.
- "I killed two girls in Delphi with a box cutter that I stole from CVS and threw it in the trash."
- "I want to write a confession."
- "I killed Abby and Libby."
- Allen continues to say he killed Abby and Libby and raped them.
- "The girls were screaming when I killed them."
- Allen is pretending he is living in medieval times
Fisher said he also noted that Allen was banging his head against the wall and it created a small gash.
He also testified that it was his belief Allen was putting on an act because they had spoken on several occasions and he says he never had any major issues with Allen.
Fisher believed Allen was being truthful when he confessed.
During cross-examination, Fisher did, however, admit that he can't tell if someone is mentally ill by looking at their eyes.
He also agreed with the defense when asked, "If someone like Richard Allen was being locked up for days, weeks, months on end. Would that be detrimental to his mental health?"
The next detention deputy to the stand was Raymond Smith.
He was the final suicide companion to testify as to what he heard Richard Allen say while being observed.
- Allen repeated "Kathy" several times and was running into his door.
- "Kathy I did it. I'm guilty. Run Kathy, run."
- "If I fu***d those girls, I fu***d those girls. If I killed those girls, I killed them."
- "My name is Richard Matthew Allen of the National Guard." Allen then began singing God Bless America.
- Allen stuffed papers into his toilet.
- "I killed those girls so I have to kill myself."
Smith did admit that he wasn't sure of Allen's mental state while was at WCU.
The deputy shared that Allen was polite and slept a lot more than others when he first started to monitor him.
Smith testified that other offenders in the WCU tried to agitate Allen. He agreed that they would tell him to "kill himself," and call him a "baby killer."
The final witness on the stand for day 10 was detention deputy Jason Bedwell. He testified to being responsible for performing rounds on the floor and documenting what Allen is doing every 15 minutes.
Bedwell shared that on one occasion when he was standing at Allen's cell he said, "I am sorry for what I did. I am sorry for killing those girls."
He added that Allen was awake but crying and lying down when he said it.
None of the deputies or the warden said they believed the things Allen was saying — including the 60-plus times he is reported to have confessed to the murders. They also said they thought he was sane.
Recorded phone calls from Richard Allen to his family — including confessions made by Allen on the phone — are likely to be played in court for the jury to hear on Wednesday.
FOLLOWING: Delphi Murders Trial: Day 11 | Prison psychologist says Allen made multiple confessions
WATCH | Forensics expert testifies she did not find Richard Allen's DNA at Delphi Murders scene
